Not so long ago I submitted a post for "Original Faith," another Blog associated with this area of websites. The subject matter was a scriptural view of the gay lifestyle with an emphasis relating to gay marriage. I appreciated the opportunity to post, considering that no one much stops by here. Perhaps someday, but that's not really the point. Anyway...
I pretty much knew the lay of the land when Paul, the host of the website referred to my discussion of gay marriage as "An Opposition View." I have to complement the tenor of the discussion, really. It remained wonderfully civil for the most part. There were even a few people who seemed to agree with me. Not many, but some. And even those who did not kept things pretty cool. I appreciate that. I've been in substantially rougher landscapes. And there were some interesting comments about different views and personal faiths. Every seemed intelligent and thoughtful, and still...
There's a sign at the entrance to the website. It reads: "To participate in thoughtful discussion on religious and spiritual matters, enter the Original Faith blog — where respect for all viewpoints on religion is a spiritual passion." As I said, I found the respect for the most part. I found the thought, as well. But passion?
Picture this: Your in a small boat in the middle of the night. You are rowing hard against the wind, and the waves are splashing over the sides. Your arms are already tire, and you wonder if there is enough left in you to make it to the shore. It's nearly pitch black. No lamp will light; no torch will burn. And then out of the shadowy ways you see something coming toward you. It's a figure that walks on the waves as easily as you or I walk down the path. Now if this is me, I'm convinced by now that what I am seeing is probably the angel of death coming to take me out of the boat, or maybe it will wait until I fall into the sea and drown, and then it will pick up the pieces. And even when you hear a familiar voice saying "Do not be afraid!" I'm still probably face down at the bottom of the boat, crying and praying and who knows what else.
And then I hear a second voice. Maybe it isn't as calm as the first, but it's loud enough. It's saying "Lord, if that's really you, order me to come out on the water to you." And I'm thinking "Is this guy nuts?" But the Lord answers "Come!" and next thing you know the boat is rocking because someone is getting out and heading into the waves.
It wasn't much of a trip, but there has never been another one like it. Think about it: In the midst of the wind and waves, already in danger, what does Peter do? He doesn't just say "Lord, allow me to do the impossible" or "Lord, enable me to do the impossible." He says "Lord, order me to do the impossible!" In the face of fear and maybe death, Peter, arguably the biggest screw-up of all the apostles, is saying he wants the Lord to give him an impossible job.
That's a passion for faith. That's the kind of faith I want to have - a faith that faces everything, and still wants more to do. It's a faith that is bold, that proclaims right up to the end. Or at least until I start sinking up to my neck.
That was what was missing during most of the discussion. The person I read with the most passion was the person that seemed to have no real faith at all. Most of the rest was...bland. There was philosophy and spirituality and lots of opinion, but was there faith? People looked within themselves for belief. It was a spirituality that asked for nothing and promised nothing. It might give personal comfort, but would it spread? Would it empower? Would it build anything that would last? Was it faith?
Not a faith that I could see.
There's a passage in the scriptures around the commandments that is translated that the Lord God is a "jealous" God. A better translation, more exact translation, is the Lord God burns passionately for you. He burns for a relationship with you so that you will know him and fellowship with him. And the fellowship will change everything about you. And it will last forever.
That's the faith I want. That's the passion I seek. And that's the journey I try to continue each day. I've seen a small peak of heaven. I won't turn back again.
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13 comments:
Came by here t'answer, seein' as how Paul's blog ain't ours.
Yer statement of "formalizing" falls on less than happy ears.
Perhaps you didn't get the notation to the taliban notion, but, here's some of it right here in our own country.
Steve, the guy who has let me stay all these many years (19) is not gullible.
I'm expected to pull m'weight as best as possible, and I do.
The winters are spent chopping wood, caring for animals here, cleaning, cooking, and as an extra measure, when I do make money, I turn it over to him to help defer costs such as mortgage, insurance, whatever.
If he dies this evening, I'm in big trouble.
You see, even if I have put what I have into this home, I have no recourse for preserving the property (the mortgage company will take it all back) for preserving any part of the ranch (the dogs, the cats will go to the pound, the piano will get eaten up by a more than greedy and willing mortgage holder) and, as for me?
Ha!
I've seen other Viet Nam vets on the streets. At least THEY will befriend me.
The taliban government that it setting itself in place here in the US will not help. will not even notice.
Hope this doesn't conflict with what you feel the truth is, but, gosh....I already know that you would fight to the death over man's words and leave behind what is in your heart...two completely different sources of energy, and then, there's the soul, too.
I used to believe in the bible. Then. one day I realized that believing in the bible was recklessly leaving my soul behind.
The fist rule...
No other gods before me
the bible has become as a god to so many people. The idea that the CREATOR wrote it is all the more nonsensical when you take into consideration the idea of the writen words.
GOD so loved the earth that HE gave his only begotten son....
this is not the same message as the old testament, nor is it the way it started out.
You need to actually study some Judaism for a realization of why things were changed, and I'm sorry to bring the truth to you so abruptly, but, they were changed.
Not as a conspiracy.
Not as a better than you attitude.
But by folks who thought they were doing the right thing.
Folks with good intentions.
I'm not saying the CREATOR didn't move the writers. Only that mankind has done what they have always done and what they will always do.
They say it like this...
"What GOD wants is..."
None of us knows WHAT GOD wants.
None have ever known.
We are too small.
Boneman,
I am sorry you are hurting so much inside. Here's the thing:
I have read the words and studied the words. Start to finish, it all fits. They are one and in unity. Take a look at the phrasing from John: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." That was the same Word that spoke the universe into being. I don't know what brought you to reject the truth, but I will pray for you. I don't know what part of your soul you think you can gain by ignoring everything that God wants to tell you, but remember the words of the one you seem to think came to change everything:
Mat 5:17 Let there be no thought that I have come to put an end to the law or the prophets. I have not come for destruction, but to make complete.
Mat 5:18 Truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth come to an end, not the smallest letter or part of a letter will in any way be taken from the law, till all things are done.
Mat 5:19 Whoever then goes against the smallest of these laws, teaching men to do the same, will be named least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who keeps the laws, teaching others to keep them, will be named great in the kingdom of heaven.
Does that sound like someone who came to abolish the old ways, or just to bring us into harmony with their meaning. Study it. It's all in there, I promise you. You can certainly accept salvation without knowing the history, but you can never appreciate or understand it nearly as well. And the understanding will be a blessing.
Yer big on quoting the bible verses you like....
Who are blessed? Those who find dissonance and point it out or those who try to bring peace to men?
"My goal in my faith is agreement with God. That is the source of my spiritual strength, my peace, and my joy. If someone could show me definitely God's approval of homosexuality, I would stop opposition of it immediately and work through prayer until my spirit embraced it. And by doing so, I would receive a blessing."
If the CREATOR did not accept homosexuals, then the CREATOR would not accept any of us....
unless you are considering that you are sinless.
My bible sez "this generation shall not pass away..." which infers quite alot.
my best guess is reincarnation.
another is that we put too much emphasis on death.
But, to have "read" the entire bible...hmmm. You must be quite old. And yet, to have not served in any war? Did you not have your hand on murder?
Does that include the books that were left out of the bible? Thomas, Mary, Tobias, and more. That's a lot of reading, but, reading is not understanding.
Questions?
Ha!
More questions than answers, my friend...WAY more questions than answers.
And, when you've run out of questions and all you have is answers, and well, that means you've learned all you can learn; and those who have stopped learning have all but died. They may still breath, but, it is an illusion of life.
You are hung up on a single aspect of controversy. What strength do you show being so wrapped up with that one thing? How can you help others if you are too busy preaching what is wrong with other people? when it comes to finding fault in action and deed, the best place to start is with yourself.
After you know yourself, you can help so many others.
Boneman,
You don't seem to want to stick to one point. Does God accept homosexuals? Yes, but the same way that he accepts all sin - through faith in His son. And that is my point - that it is sin. It is against what God wants for us and his plan. And if that is the case, then how in good conscience can I support the idea of formalizing it in law?
Look back through what I have written. I have never claimed to be any less sinful than anyone else. Why would you even mention something like that? Are you trying to distract from your own feelings?
Again, you are shooting wild, hoping to find something that hits. I still maintain the answers are in there, and you have yet to present anything to show otherwise. But keep trying. I'm willing to go the distance.
not quite shooting "wild" as you say.
Communication is based on things shared.
Boneman,
I appreciate your sharing with me. Unfortunately, I have trouble distinguishing what you may be saying or asking. However, begging your indulgence that I don't necessarily understand everything that you might be asking, I'll do my best to address.
"If the CREATOR did not accept homosexuals, then the CREATOR would not accept any of us....
unless you are considering that you are sinless."
I was not implying that I or anyone was sinless. Nor was acceptance the issue. All manners of sinful people are made acceptable to God through Christ. The topic we were discussing in the other thread was whether or not homosexual activity was considered moral by God. I maintained it was not.
"My bible sez "this generation shall not pass away..." which infers quite alot.
Please finish the quote. Give me a full quote, and I'll address it.
"Does that include the books that were left out of the bible? Thomas, Mary, Tobias, and more. That's a lot of reading, but, reading is not understanding."
"All the books left out of the Bible" pretty much encompasses the library of congress, which I don't think anyone has read all of. As for the ones that you mention, those were evaluated by religious scholars, and rejected for inclusion. I don't know what they contain. I know that others devoted to the task of discerning scriptural truth accepted some writings and rejected others. It's entirely possible that there are some inspired writings out there that "didn't make the cut." I maintain that the Bible is the inspired word of God. I don't maintain that it is the complete word of God. John declared that if all of the miracles of Christ were written about, there would not be books enough to contain them. I guess that means there could be more out there.
I read. I also study. I also work for understanding. Do you, or do you emphasize views that you agree with?
Old is relative. I have served in time of war. I did not serve in a combat theater.
"You are hung up on a single aspect of controversy. What strength do you show being so wrapped up with that one thing?"
To the best of my knowledge, this is the biggest single controversy where morality and domestic public policy collide.
"How can you help others if you are too busy preaching what is wrong with other people?"
History shows that societal standards drift over time. When people of good conscience say nothing, the drift accelerates. It happened with premarital sex and liberalized divorce. The results were not encouraging. If a group is intent on portraying the behavior as good, moral, etc., then I think the alternative view needs to be out there as well.
"After you know yourself, you can help so many others."
Boneman, out of respect for others, I try not to assume too much about people beyond the information they supply. You don't know me. You don't like my attitude; I get that. But that's hardly enough information for you to base much of an opinion of my self knowledge or spiritual depth, wouldn't you say?
I like your last point, that you have seen a small peak of heaven. That you have tied your wagon to your Faith, with its jealous God and His revelations through scriptures etc is your own choice and makes sense to the extent that it's the best way you know towards happiness. However in today's world with its multiplicity of faiths, beliefs, powerbases and so on, your faith has no authority outside its own kingdom. Or does it?
Yves,
"My" faith has no authority outside of me. However, representative democracy is at least as much an identifier of our republice as plurality. Despite how others may feel we should act, we are still free to use our voice and our vote to promote things that we accept or believe are "good." So I use my vote to promote candidates that I feel most match up to that view.
As far as trying to exert personal authority of a moral type over people, I don't. (Exception: My children. I consider it very much my responsibility to train them as they grow.) How could I? I have no kingdom at all. However, if some proclaims something as "good" when clearly the scriptures say it is not, then I speak up. For all I know, there is a person with little scriptural knowledge out there trying to come to a decision. If they see everyone agreeing with a point, including some Christians, they may come to the conclusion that it has been decided. I will do all that I can to not let a lie stand as the truth. That's about all the authority I can hope for.
Gary, I think you will find this article at Venus Magazine very interesting.
http://www.venusmagazine.org/cover_story.html
Sorry, Gary. Here is the address in its entirety:
http://www.venusmagazine.org/
cover_story.html
Anonymous,
Thanks for the note. This is a really good illustration from my point of view. God didn't come as a man just to accept, but also to transform. I praise him greatly because his power can do what our power cannot.
Gary,
Thank you for what you wrote today on my blog.
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